Video Tools
Permalink:
Embed Code:
Bookmark
bluestar506 Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - are you serious? cycles is blind? water cycle, carbon cycle, rock cycle, when the sun dies it's matter will create other stars and we ourselves are made of matter from other stars and other planets and even other life. the universe works in cycles.
justforwatchingcraps Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - see you keep saying that...but like what i've been saying, what makes sense to you is irrelevant. your ability to conceive of reality doesn't decide reality. i already gave you examples of how our common sense can fall short or change with time. that explanation of multiple big bangs might make sense to you, but it isn't accepted and for many scientists much more educated than either of us, it doesn't make enough sense because they have come up with OTHER theories.
justforwatchingcraps Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - so what do you think they are doing with the LHC? why do you think these scientists keep trying to recreate the big bang, because before the big bang there was no mass, they are looking for the God particle which is said to give mass to everything during the big bang.
justforwatchingcraps Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - what i meant by cycles being blind is that they have no beginning or an end. and THAT is just as unlikely as God would be if not more. all the cycles you mention have a beginning in that they wouldn't occur if there was a shortage in one part of it. none of them would occur if the matter that is involved in them didn't obtain mass during the big bang. your picking and choosing theories based on waht makes sense to you personally.
bluestar506 Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - common sense tells me that Santa Claus doesn't exist, i don't think that'll change. of course your common sense changes the more you learn about the universe. i missed a couple comments below but you just pointed out that science is always discovering and proving new things and is wrong about other things. how can you just say God is the answer to everything just because there is no accepted theory of what happened before the big bang. BASIC common sense tells me the idea of God doesn't fit.
justforwatchingcraps Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - so what makes you any different than someone who believes in God? you look down on people like that because u feel they aren't using their heads and are being "fed" sum1 elses thoughts. but u admit that ur own thoughts you got from other thinkers. you choose to believe in certain theories based on what makes sense to you even though there are other theories that would make what you believe impossible. you are no different. stop lumping people together and judging them.
justforwatchingcraps Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - ok well i guess u missed my comment about quantum physics. what does BASIC common sense tell you about one object existing in two places at the same time acting independently. or that we can change reality by just looking at it? because quantum mechanics suggests all that is true on the smallest scale. i'm not saying that we accept everything, but something like God is nowhere near as simple as santa clause. if you think that, you don't understand what the idea of God represents.
bluestar506 Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - how does a being magically creating the universe from nothing make more sense than anything i've said? there is a difference between believing something that you can back up with observations of the world, and believing something blindly. how can some people try to tear down theories like evolution and the big bang... but then believe in creationism which makes absolutely no sense.
justforwatchingcraps Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - i believe God is an answer, i'm not saying its undeniable, but its possible like any other theory. God can't be compared to santa clause because god is a philosophical idea while santa clause is a person who exists like any one of us, but for some reason none of us can catch him...that is clearly improbable. but God is so deep that if you say it falls short of basic logic, that means you aren't applying basic logic to God, ur just applying ur own emotional personal logic to him.
bluestar506 Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - i don't understand this argument, cause i would say it is you have apply "emotional personal logic" to God. there is no logic in the idea of God itself. it is based on faith.
justforwatchingcraps Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - ok so first of all, did i say anything against the big bang or evolution? no i didn't. you aren't arguing against God. you don't even kno what this idea of God is. your arguing against the bible or what christians say about God. and if you say things like "magically created" ur obvoiusly adding an emotional spin to it. the exact mechanics of how God caused the big bang isn't whats in question, so where does magic come in? who ever said anything about "magic."
justforwatchingcraps Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - it is based on faith, but don't think you aren't going on faith either. anywhere there is a shortage of certain knowledge and u make an guess, ur going on faith that its right. there are theories about the big bang that turn your explanations to garbage...but you decide to believe in the theories that might promote this idea of cycles that you like so much. why? because you have faith that the universe works through cycles, it just sounds better to you. its personal
justforwatchingcraps Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - are you even reading my comments? how are you going to debate with me if you ignore what i'm saying? this entire time i've been saying the big bang suggests that god might exist, and then you lump me with christian creationists? and you want me to think of you as a reasonable person who thinks through objective science?
bluestar506 Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - magic is the equivilant of something happening with no explanation. so God creating the universe with no explanation of how is magic. um i'm argueing against what the bible or what christians say about God? most religions have similar concepts of what God is and how the universe came to be. they have their small differences in the details but in concept it is the same. and the statement was made about the many many people who tear down evolution and the big bang, not you.
bluestar506 Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - if you say God created the universe.... that is creationism. do you have another word for it? cause that's fine but it's the same concept
justforwatchingcraps Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - i gotta go...check out some of the videos in my channel in the playlist "science and philosophy"...i don't want to go in circles because ur ignoring what i'm saying.
justforwatchingcraps Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - so are u implying that i havne't been talking about the big bang as truth this whole time?
bluestar506 Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - and because you have ignored things i have said, i've had to repeat myself. thank you for your time.
justforwatchingcraps Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - there are sitll many people who believe in the possiblity of God who aren't part of any religion...no religious group owns the concept of God. it is a philosophical idea that many well known scientists much smarter than either of us won't dismiss as easily as you are. the reason you dismiss it so easily is because of emotion, not reason.
bluestar506 Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - yes i know there are many different interpretations of God and my philosophy is that there is no supreme power although there is the power of the universe. so in one way, my belief in a "god" would be that god is you, me, and all of the universe. there is a delay in many of these comments so sorry if this debate is really disconnected.
bluestar506 Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - yes i had missed this comment, and i am well aware of that experiment. i love this experiment, but you are comparing this scientific mystery to the philosiphical idea of God. science is continually expanding and discovering, and is wrong in many things too. but by no means will the fact that we can not explain several things now mean a higher power explains these mysteries. the lack of understanding in things about the world is due to us being humans, not proof of a higher power.
justforwatchingcraps Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - i don't mean to say that a lack of understanding is the reason i believe in God. i'm only pointing out that a lack of understanding is the reason we can't rely on our senses and "common sense" alone. we have to think of possibilities and philosophize about them. and the experiment with the large hadron collider suggests that the universe doesn't work in cycles and that mass first appeared during the big bang and the "god particle" is what gave everything mass.
justforwatchingcraps Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - i really have to go tho, but you really should watch the videos i have in my "science and philosophy" playlist.
mhesi Says:
Nov 20, 2008 - Most intelligent people who believe in God do not suscribe to the "God of the Gaps" view. The biologist Kenneth Miller put it thus "Look for God in things you can explain" While I am not a traditional theist as he is, it makes perfect sense. What we see in front of us every day is an orderly marvel. Miracles (wether they happen or not), and things we cannot explain yet are trivial in view of the harmonious workings of this incredible universe.
bluestar506 Says:
Nov 17, 2008 - as i said before, the big bang isn't necessarily ONE big bang for all of time. something cannot come from nothing so to me multiple big bangs and big crunches make sense. it makes a lot more sense that a being magically creating the universe with no explantion to how, why at that time, and how THAT BEING was created. it's funny how some people throw all these arguments at the big bang theory or evolution, when creationism is the farthest thing from making any sense at all.